IBR peer pressure
Jan. 25th, 2004 11:11 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
drscottOK, I've decided (after minimal application of peer pressure) to go to IBR this year. I've never been, and in the past I've usually been ignored at bear events. Nothing like reverse prejudice. If I hang out long enough and drink, I'll probably fit in.
I started reading the BML around 1988 and read it for years (until it became unmanageable.) I was all for the idea (and I generally like the "bear type," and certainly bear attitudes) but as it has become more conformist it's lost a lot of its charm. It's particularly worrisome when "no pressure to be slender young hairless things" became "get bigger and fit in."
Maybe if I expound more on this topic I'l get some comments! [heh]
I started reading the BML around 1988 and read it for years (until it became unmanageable.) I was all for the idea (and I generally like the "bear type," and certainly bear attitudes) but as it has become more conformist it's lost a lot of its charm. It's particularly worrisome when "no pressure to be slender young hairless things" became "get bigger and fit in."
Maybe if I expound more on this topic I'l get some comments! [heh]
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Date: 2004-01-25 11:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-26 12:03 am (UTC)So when you take it up again, how will we know the difference? :-)
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Date: 2004-01-26 08:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-25 11:51 pm (UTC)Some of the musclebears don't like being lumped in with bears in general because they don't want to be perceived as fat or out-of-shape by others.
Some in the bear crowd resent the musclebears over that perception.
*Y A W N*
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Date: 2004-01-25 11:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-26 10:03 am (UTC)Almost four years have passed since that discussion took place, and the conclusion I've reached is that it's best to view the bear scene simply as that: a social network that allows one to meet the sort of men one finds appealing. To give it the weight of a "community" with a common goal...well, that's just a recipe for failure and disappointment.
Take the positives one can get from it and disassociate oneself from the negatives. But above all, be civil to each other. That's how I feel about it.
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Date: 2004-01-26 11:37 am (UTC)I haven't read Bears on Bears -- sounds like a useful prep for field research. I find just about everybody interesting at some level. Guys who make me think of sex at first glance are now very rare [partly because my sex drive is down, partly because I'm less interested in appearance], so if those were the only people I was willing to associate with, I'd be isolated indeed.
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Date: 2004-01-26 02:53 am (UTC)*shrugs* I'd say go and have fun and play Marlin Perkins...observing bears on the prowl can be a helluva lot of fun.
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Date: 2004-01-26 08:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-26 10:12 am (UTC)You bring up a good point. The idealist in me wishes that we can be civil and inclusive in these matters, but the realist in me knows it just isn't possible. Call me cynical, but it just isn't human nature.
My entering into a relationship really allowed me to look on the subject of beardom from a different point of view. I'm not as down on it as I was when the Bears on Bears discussion took place. I think I'm able to enjoy the scene a little more as an observer and differently than I did when I was single. Still, the bear scene is not something of which I consider myself an active member.
Noticed in your LJ that you're a member of AGMC. How cool! When I lived in the Midwest, I was a member of the Gateway Men's Chorus (St. Louis), and we did a joint concert with AGMC both in Atlanta and in St. Louis. It was such a fun time!
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Date: 2004-01-26 11:52 am (UTC)I'm right there beside you on the cynical bench, then....
Noticed in your LJ that you're a member of AGMC. How cool! When I lived in the Midwest, I was a member of the Gateway Men's Chorus (St. Louis), and we did a joint concert with AGMC both in Atlanta and in St. Louis. It was such a fun time!
That IS cool! Of course, I think that happened before I became a member (3 years ago), but joint ventures like that are always fantastic. AGMC did a performance with Turtle Creek Chorale out of Dallas last year, and it was fabulous. ;) I hear SFGMC is good, too..guess I'll find out at GALA this year. :)
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Date: 2004-01-26 07:20 pm (UTC)Gosh, I wish I could remember the last name of the guy who hosted me in Atlanta; he stayed with my family when AGMC came to St. Louis. His first name is Michael, and as far as I know, he still lives in Atlanta and is still a member. Very nice guy. We kept in touch for a while and then kinda drifted.
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Date: 2004-01-26 08:46 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-26 10:13 am (UTC)Other Gods
Date: 2004-01-26 10:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-26 10:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-01-26 10:29 am (UTC)Due to my suburban isolation, I encountered bears as a group only recently so I don't have a long history with them. What I notice is that bear men tend to just be regular guys who enjoy other regular guys. Everything else seems to be a one-off that makes individuals seem less conformist than in many other groups. For example, I know bears who are involved with the imperial court system, leather bears, food & wine bears, and so on, but their “bearness” seems identifiable and more consistent to other bears than any other characteristic.
I'm losing everyone, aren't I?
Ok, the point is that in bear groups, there appears to be enough room for guys who aren't hairy and who are slim or muscular or not large or fat. Am I wrong? I certainly know people who claim to be dismissed at bear gatherings because they don't look a certain way. But in general, is that true?
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Date: 2004-01-26 11:30 am (UTC)I can even relay an experience that sticks out in my mind. I was at Bear Pride in 1999, and a bunch of us decided to do our own thing and put together a group to see Star Wars: Episode I. I don't recall offhand how many came along, but we had enough to fill several vehicles, and there was one guy in my ride who didn't know any of us. He seemed a nice enough sort. He tried to make conversation with the other 4-5 guys in the van, including me. I was the only person who bothered to respond to his attempts at communication, and we had a nice chat on our way to dinner and the movie. And guess what? He was rather slim and, at least as far as I could tell, smooth. Perhaps I'm drawing the wrong conclusion, but I can't help but believe he was largely ignored because he was so different from the rest of us physically. I mean, where were we? At a freakin' bear gathering! :)
Lest I make myself seem like a holier-than-thou saint, I want to say that I have myself indeed rebuffed the attentions of guys who didn't fit my perception of a "bear." I realize now it was to my detriment. I also bought into the notion that I had to look or be a certain way to fit in among the bears. I got over that, and I'm so glad I did. Now I couldn't give a rat's ass.
Everyone has their own ideas of what makes a bear, and therein lies another problem. It's turned into a "lifestyle" and a marketable demographic, and with those factors comes a perceived ideal to live up to.
The all-inclusiveness idea was a nice idea in theory, but like I said, it cannot realistically exist. Overall I think the bears are more generally accepting of most folks -- but only up to a certain point. Once that non-bear trying to talk to you is blocking your cruising view of the hot bear across the bar, all bets are off.
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Date: 2004-01-26 03:35 pm (UTC)These days, the discriminator for me is a developed sense of humor, bear or not.
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Date: 2004-01-26 04:33 pm (UTC)