Looking for a mate in mid-life...

[drscott]

So you're older now, and you think wiser. But still embedded in your thought processes are all of those myths about romance and the ideal partner just waiting for you out there like some used, rusty needle in a mildewed haystack.

Viewed dispassionately, what are the odds that all of these things will happen: a) you find a person that elicits a really strong emotional response, and b) they feel the same about you, and c) they are capable of being an ideal partner to you (single, interesting for years, matching in values, makes you laugh...), and vice-versa? Pretty small, in middle age, when most of the interesting candidates are already taken. So maybe you should think about whether each of those conditions is necessary....

The kind of bond that holds most really long-term relations together is not the intense, dramatic love you've been told all your life is a necessary precondition. It's more a feeling that only grows in time, and has to do with mutual reliance, trust, respect, and a more mild affection. It's not clear that there's any correlation between the people you might feel more intense initial love for and the person who would make you happy in the long run. I wised up and went for the person I liked and knew would be trustworthy and entertaining for the long run. Immediate passion and stunning looks had never led me to the right person for the long run; I looked for the best partner, and I've never been happier in my life. I did the right thing, especially since we have the kind of relationship that allows some of that passion and novelty to happen with others. You might want to seriously question your assumption that if you're not feeling something deeply after a few months, it's no good; and you might be careful to find partner-candidates who are patient and have evolved beyond a need to have the intense romance they have been told all their lives they are due. I would pay more attention to the boredom signal: "I am with X and I'd rather be somewhere else, with someone else, who's 'interesting.'" That's deadly in the long run.

So when you're dating someone, ignore your checklist of requirements and pay attention to your feelings. Do you enjoy being with them? Do you expect that that will last a long time? Everything else is noise.

Comments

Indeed

[fallen-x-ashes.livejournal.com]

Well said.

I wonder if this mode of thinking also commonly seperates those of us who are poly from the more monogamy leaning people.

Re: Indeed

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

That's certainly part of it. If you've thrown off one set of conventional mindset handcuffs, you can mor elikely throw off others.

[kitchenbeard.livejournal.com]

In my more lucid moments when I'm not buying into the Hallmark and Walmart idealizations, I realize I may be fine with not havng a partner again. I just would like someone to be "intimate" with again. No t neccesarily physically, but someone who knows me better then everyone else. That's really what I miss most of the time.

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

I guess that's the point of this piece -- being as broadminded as possible about how you might satisfy that need. I see a lot of people walking away from intimacy because they're looking for perfection and they think one intimate companion precludes the supposed perfect one they could be with.

[mrdreamjeans.livejournal.com]

This is exactly how I feel. I found this once. With these parameters, it can happen again. HUGS!

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

Hugs back. You also spent a lot of time travelling, making it harder...

[envirobear.livejournal.com]

Very nicely said. When we're younger, we mostly have that expectation to have the wildest sex every waking moment with a partner who is porn-star hot (and who will impress all our friends with his wit, intellect, artistic/culinary/mechanical capabilities, looks, and sexual prowess), and, as I like to put it, "play house" until one or the other or both become bored and move on to the next "challenge". It's unfortunate that most of us have to go through emotional blast furnaces in order to reach the understanding that you write of so well...but sometimes the tempering we get in the process of that learning makes us better human beings and better capable of loving other for the *right* reasons. It's even more unfortunate that others never learn those lessons, or that they do so after many difficult years of aggravating their close friends, by their obstinancy, to the point of pushing away those friends because they believe that their own situation is "unique" or "special".

Thank you for the insight...hopefully someone who needs to understand what you say *is* understanding what you say.

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

You can end up with a series of partners who don't last because the initial flashy attractants have no staying power, and the failure of any real person to meet the ideal means you'll never be satisfied.

I usually use the word "crucible" instead of "blast furnace" as metaphor for the burning out of unnecessary assumptions and misleading myths, but you understand me exactly.

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. It's better to be happy with the real world than to grow ever more bitter waiting for what you think the world owes you to wash up on your doorstep.

[thorendor.livejournal.com]

All the conditions you mentioned -- mutual emotional responsiveness, match in values, etc. -- are all so spot on. I'd add one more: strong communications. When they're all present, chances are good that you may go on to a happy and healthy long term life-partnership, whether open or closed.

While I agree that romance, or "dramatic love" are not pre-requisites for the relationship to spark, but they sure add to it and ensure it endures. Happy partners seem to have a common thread of experiencing romance and continuing to be crazy about each other, even years down the road traveled together.

If one never has that passion, or compromises ones values to experience it, then that spells trouble eventually for the couple. Without it, infatuation won't last or evolve into more.

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

You're both lucky and skilled at communicating your feelings. It's great when it happens, but I'm trying to say you can find what you need without that. The luckiest people are infatuated first, then grow into long-term love. But most people aren't so lucky, and find they were mislead by initial passion into a relationship with someone who wouldn't work in the long run.

[thorendor.livejournal.com]

Agreed that infatuation is not a good predictor of long-term love. Also agreed that the passion sometimes comes much after when two people first meet.

My point is the emotional passion for each other seems to be an important key in successful life-partnerships. If it fades or never existed, then the relationship seems more like close friends, brothers or roommates. If one doesn't find it with one's life-partner(s) and constantly searches for it elsewhere, what does that say about the relationship and for the reasons one stays in it?

Finding that deep feeling of being so connected to each other -- even if it doesn't exist at the first date -- and sustaining it... wow!

[fj.livejournal.com]

Until they get a mid-life crisis, hate where you live, want to be around their old friends, and suddenly adventure without you seems really cool.

Until then, yeah, the shared values thin really works.

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

Bitter much?

My brother's wife just left him for a work companion. I've been left because of a mid-life crisis. Shit happens. We roll with it. Sometimes paths diverge, and it's time to leave. Would it be better if he stayed, unhappy? I know next to nothing about your situation, but you will have to look for someone who can be happy with you as you are....

[pardon if I strayed into toopersonal territory]

[fj.livejournal.com]

Bitter much?

Not here. I was just stating how it sometimes works out.

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

People can evolve away from each other. You can also get hit by a bus or become a meth addict. There are many ways to wrench apart a relationship that can't be foreseen and shouldn't be seen as occasion for blame.

"when most of the interesting candidates are already taken" or ...

[allanh.livejournal.com]

In your and my case, the HIV pandemic is also a factor. It's a grim observation, but it's part of what's winnowed down the "dating pool" for gay/bi men in our generation: A lot of the potential mates our age ... are dead.

(Perhaps I should have said, "potential mates who WOULD have been around our age.")

Every preconceived requirement I had went out the window the moment I saw Randy for the first time ... as did his. Our feelings did the rest.

A wonderful posting. Thank you for sharing it!

Re: "when most of the interesting candidates are already taken" or ...

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

Grim but true observation about our cohort. The friendliest, most sociable members of our generation were preferentially taken from us.

Re: "when most of the interesting candidates are already taken" or ...

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

I read an interesting transformation of this idea on some listserv a few years back. A couple of gay guys in their twenties were opining that nonmonogamy and polyamory were things that "old" guys got into because our generation had been half wiped out, and so we had to "settle" for nonexclusive relationships since our dating pool was reduced. But that was why they, as younger guys whose dating pool was robust, should be able to demand monogamy and "real" relationships. ;-)

Whereas I explored polyamory because I'm greedy and a pain in the ass, so I wanted to have as many hot people who can put up with me around, as possible.

Re: "when most of the interesting candidates are already taken" or ...

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

Self-knowledge is a beautiful thing ("I'm greedy and a pain in the ass")! Me, too.

Young people are so amusingly wrong at times.

At least you're honest about why you explored poly...

[allanh.livejournal.com]

That ... is one of the most fascinating theories I've heard about poly in a long time. Seriously.

I wonder how much truth there is to it ... and this is a topic which would be perfect for a master's or doctoral thesis. (Were I so inclined.)

Re: At least you're honest about why you explored poly...

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

I think it bears thought. What I triggered on were the "scare" words ... "old guys," "settle," and "real". All of which were undefined and all of which had some obvious emotional loadings the people in question hadn't examined. But it's certainly the case that crisis points in a community can force people to re-examine how they live their lives, and that people can experiment with new forms of social organization as a result.

Whether this should be valued negatively (or positively) is a whole 'nother kettle of fish. But by itself, it's of a piece with "gay men developed sophisticated medical venues for themselves as a response to HIV." Yep, that's partly true. ;-)

I just would hate to be a young man who wanted to try poly if he was friends with young men who held that kind of opinion about how it was only a tragic compromise that half-dead plague survivors were into. ;-)

Re: At least you're honest about why you explored poly...

[fallen-x-ashes.livejournal.com]

It can't be true.

I'm 23 and I'm poly. :-p

And I gaurentee that more then half of those young gay men insisting on monogamy have cheated on their partners more then twice.

I honestly am beginning to think that being poly may be just another inborn psychological orientation, just like being gay or straight is.

Re: At least you're honest about why you explored poly...

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

I've thought that occasionally as well. What stops me from believing it are people like my partner's partner, who isn't *sexually* poly herself, but is pretty well emotionally engaged with a lot of different people. That's "polyamory" if you place sufficient emphasis on the "amory" part, but even most poly people tend to focus on sex.

Still, there's a definite continuum between people who strongly prefer monogamy, people who strongly prefer sexual openness, and people who can mix and match.

Meanwhile, guys like you are why I don't buy "polyamory is a function of the HIV crisis" explanations fully, although I think the generation hit hardest by HIV might have found themselves more motivated to explore their potential for polyamory. ;-)

Re: At least you're honest about why you explored poly...

[allanh.livejournal.com]

And (in my case) their potential for dating (or in some cases, TRYING to date) men outside of their age cohort. Randy's 10 years older than I am. :)

Then there was the 22-year-old who INSISTED on pursuing me ... *sigh* ... I just couldn't handle the emotional drama and angst of a twentysomething, no matter how intellectually mature he might be. But there weren't any guys around to date who were my age.

[quirkstreet.livejournal.com]

My limerance phase with my partner lasted quite a while. Then we settled into comfortable companionship mode. Which is awesome. Especially because every now and then we still look at each other and get all hot and bothered like we were still kids.

He's still *one of* the hottest people I know. We also have a LOT of shared history. And I get to have hot romances on the side ... some of which last their season and fade, some of which mature in lasting relationships of their own kind.

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

Funny you should bring this up and I do agree with this. I had read a book recently that essentially says the same thing and he went on to day you will never find "Mr Right", what you will find is someone you enjoy being around with, trust on many levels), really are good friends first, rather than lovers first.

He essentially went through the beginnings of the relationship, ie, the dating etc, the first year or two and then the 5 year mark, the 10 and beyond and his conclusion is much the same as you just said.

I do think there is something to being older and wiser, don't you?

[billeyler.livejournal.com]

Danny and I met in 2001 when he was 49 and I was about to turn 47. I think we got it right as we delve into our middle-age.

[mediamutt.livejournal.com]

I have the luck to say I've had it twice. My first partner passed away from AIDS in 1997, and had I been in the "seek perfection nothing less" mode, would never have spent the 5-1/2 wonderful years I did with him. And then 7 years after his passing, when I finally accepted that being single for the rest of my life was no bad thing, given my first wonderful man, whom should appear but another one.

In both cases, it wasn't mad passionate love (lust?), but a sudden feeling of "I would like to get to know him better", and it only grew from there. So yes, completely agree with your outlook. As my mother said: "passion fades...the real question is can you live with him even when he squeezes the toothpaste tube the wrong way?"

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

I want to know more is sort of the source of any attraction I have to someone. If it doesn't end, the attraction doesn't, either. And being willing to step back from control to let someone into your life (tolerating with grace the disorder they bring with them) is a key skill. I've taken years to get good at it!

[fuzzygruf.livejournal.com]

"Ignore your checklist" is really true. "Just have fun and see where it goes" is the next step.

[markosf.livejournal.com]

For some reason (yes, this is how my mind works) your post reminded me of the joke where the guy is looking for a wife and gives three women $10,000 each and then comes back one year later to evaluate what each of them has done with it and their lives. Perhaps you know the punch line. ;)

You can't fool me; you totally picked your honey 'cause he's hot!

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

Shh! He's much more tractable when he's unaware of his hotness.

Alas, I don't know the punch line.

[cuyahogarvr.livejournal.com]

Without going into a lot of detail, all I need to say is "Thank You". I've been struggling with a lot of this and really been unable to put it into words. Your post, and the discussion that has followed has really helped me settle on what I've been feeling and musing about for quite awhile now.
Maybe I should be paying you instead of my therapist!

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

They don't call me "Dr_Scott" for nothing... :-)

[wooddragon.livejournal.com]

Well, crap.

I had the 'myth' for 20 years. He died; I haven't had it for the last 5 years. I miss it. Intellectually, I realize that the sort of passion I had might be a less-than-once-in-a-lifetime thing, but emotionally, I want that back.

That said, I completely realize that many of my emotional needs are met via friends and family, and I can do just fine without it. Most of the time. When I get into a mode of feeling sorry for myself, though, it becomes much more difficult.

Not to mention worrying about being too old/fat/ugly to attract someone who'd be worth attracting, regardless of teh long-term relationship outcome... Ah, insecurities.

And I haven't even addressed the poly/mono thing...

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

Mick Jagger says [from memory]: "You can't always get what you want... but if you try sometimes you just might find you get what you need." Such wisdom in pop music!

Love..

[arkanjil.livejournal.com]

true, head over heels romantic love, is regarded as a fiction by much of the historical or otherwise non-modern world- or wors,e it was a danger, to be avoided at all costs. Nothing but trouble, as they used to say.


And so here i am, still head over heels with the most wonderful guy in all the universe.. But ya know, he's the one who asked for a polyamorous relationship, which was.. unexpected.

so far so good, tho. Brilliant essay and much huggage, sir.

[clintswan.livejournal.com]

visiting this post at my half-way point myself.

thank you.