Clintonism Deemed Harmful

[drscott]

The Democratic race is interesting now that the "machine" candidate (Hillary Clinton) has gone negative on the "JFK-like" candidate, Obama. Seeing one of their own subjected to the kind of dirty tricks the Clintons have always used to gain power is sobering for many Democrats.

My mother is a typical older voter. She thinks of the Clinton years as a golden age of peace and prosperity, which is the same kind of mythological aura based on ignorance she surrounds FDR with. This base of support among the ignorant (let's call them "faith-based voters," since this tendency to sanctify politicians who purport to be for the Little People is based on faith over knowledge) is large and very visible in poll numbers, where Mrs. Clinton is much stronger among the uneducated and elderly.

Most thoughtful Democratic party insiders are aware that Mrs. Clinton will be the weaker candidate in the general election - she already loses to McCain in the polls, and this is before the Republican attack machine reminds voters of all of the incidents which show the Clintons to be willing to fake any emotion and tell any lie to be elected. I don't want to hear again about her taking bribes (in the form of prearranged winning commodities trades), firing and unjustly besmirching the reputations of White House travel office employees to favor friends, or handing out pardons for cash and favors, or covering up for Bill's predatory sex habits. Having all this come up again is just too tiresome for words, and it is surely better to go with a candidate who, while he may not have the experience of the Clintons, appears to have retained some personal integrity.

Comments

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

I am with you on this one, although I've not made up my mind on who but most likely a Democrat as I like even less who's running on the republican side, it's too early to tell, however, my Mom is roughly the same age as yours and she's not made up her mind either, however that said, I do think Bill, as smarmy as he may have been, did do a lot right while president and it's sad that many of them are now totally and completely undone by what's his name since, although I don't agree w/ DOMA and the Don't Ask, Don't Tell bills that Bill did put through during his reign.

My biggest concern with Hilary is she's too wishy-washy in her stance and her opinions and changes them often, according to how the wind's blowing at that moment and I'm hearing some negative things about Obama too, but I tend to be skeptical of some of them due to what they are claiming and one of them is that hateful email that misquotes Snopes dot com in the process.

This will be one interesting race as the months pass me thinks.

[book-of-daniel.livejournal.com]

I respectfully disagree and I dont consider myself ignorant, uneducated, or particularly elderly.

I also believe Obama has a long way to go before he's worthy of the appellation "JFK-like".

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

"JFK-like" in the sense of inspiring oratory.

Being for Hillary does not imply you are old or uneducated; I am just pointing out that her relative strength is much larger among those groups, or to say it in a different way, that Obama is relatively more favored by the educated and the young.

PS

[cubdaddy.livejournal.com]

And you're wrong about McCain beating Hillary in the polls. MSNBC reported poll results just last night that Hillary beats McCain by two...though the margin of error would mean it's anyone's race. Why don't you leave the Dem slamming to Fox News, they don't need your help. ;->

Re: PS

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

It was just a single poll number I'm remembering, and no doubt within the margin of error. And I'm not slamming Dems, just being an equal-opportunity critic. Believing in pols is not my thing. :-)

Re: PS

[cubdaddy.livejournal.com]

LOL

[fyellin.livejournal.com]

The aspect you consider Hillary's weakness, I think is her strength. The Republican attack machine is going to go after the candidate, no matter who it is. For Obama, they're certainly going to find some juicy tidbit to titillate the public.

For Clinton, this is old news. The Republicans have been digging up dirt on her for 16 years. There's nothing new that they can say that they haven't said half a dozen times already. The public will be bored.

I held my nose and voted for HRC. I like Obama, and I look forward to voting for him in eight or twelve years. But I don't think the nation's problems can be solved by getting everyone together and singing kumbaya.

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

I guess where we disagree is your assumption that digging through Obama's life will find similar material to attack him on. I think there is almost nothing to find or we would have heard it from the Clinton camp - they have already tried "he's a Muslim, his middle name is Hussein!" and brought up his writings in kindergarten.

[fyellin.livejournal.com]

I don't think you've seen anything compared to what would come out in the campaign.

I honestly like Obama. If I were voting for who do I think I'd prefer to be stranded on a deserted island, it would be Barack in an instant. But I'm voting on who I think has the best chance of beating McCain (I think Obama will be eaten alive) and who will make the best president.

I note that neither of us mentions Edwards. We probably both hold similar feelings about him.

[markosf.livejournal.com]

Once again some people are basing their voting opinions on wishes and voodoo and vibes. GWB claimed he would be a different kind of president in 2000, much gentler than his father. Well of course it turned out he was far right of his father and his inexperience became a huge problem in America and worldwide, so indeed people should have voted experience and qualifications instead of perceived personality. Bill Clinton's era is unquestionably America's greatest period of prosperity in modern times. Now I realize Hillary isn't Bill, but he will be by her side plus she has always been the most integral person in his career -much more so than other politicians' wives. I have greater confidence she would get more done if president than Obama could.

Obama would make a great VP. For president, I'm going for experience.

Clinton's my gal.

[(Anonymous)]

I hear and understand everything you're saying. Believe me, I DO. No matter who carries the Democratic torch in the general election, that person will have my vote.

However, I have to disagree with your assessment that Clinton is the weaker candidate. Hillary Clinton has been demonized and HATED by conservatives for the last twenty years. "Hillary Clinton" is synonymous with "liberalism" to the far-right pundits. If it's tough running AGAINST Clinton, can you imagine how hard it is BEING Clinton? Can you imagine waking up every day and being LOATHED by so many people she actually wants to help though serving in political office. Most of us would be bawlling like babies if we were subjected to the negativity that woman puts up with every day. Hillary is one tuff cookie!

If Obama feels put upon when the Clinton campaign goes on the attack and gets "dirty", how is he going to fare in the general election against the Republicans who have been SHARPENING THEIR KNIVES for the last thirty years; using every dirty trick in the book against the likes of Al Gore and John Kerry? BELIEVE ME, I GET the positive message; and the hope; and the bright shining city on a hill imagery... especially after almost EIGHT years of horror under Bush. But as we liberals are falling all over ourselves to find someone "wholesome" enough, the Republicans are focusing on WINNING the election... and getting EIGHT MORE YEARS of Supreme Court nominations, Corporate takeover of the body politic, war, profits without capital gains taxes, and punishing the poor. I firmly believe that only Hillary Clinton has the... BALLS... to fight McCain and actually have a chance of winning.

I hate to sum it up like this (I am a VERY progressive person, Boston Irish Liberal, etc.) but here it is:

In the run-up to the general election, if the Democrats select Obama as their candidate, Obama is going to be made to seem more and more like an inexperienced, dangerous, sophmoric demogagoue... more and more like Jesse Jackson, in fact; while Senator McCain is going to start sounding, and seeming, more and more like... The President of the United States.

Heaven help us if that happens.

Hillary is my girl, come Novemeber. I urge all right-thinking lovers of liberty to realize that the Clintons have the will and the drive to actually WIN office and do some good when they get there. Obama is going to collapse like a well-intentioned house of cards.

Tim (Hope I'm wrong) in Boston

Re: Clinton's my gal.

[dr-scott.livejournal.com]

Welcome, non-LJ Tim!

You make some good points. Interesting that some of Obama's negatives weren't dug up until he was close to locking up the nomination; his association with his pastor (and all those videos where said pastor foams at the mouth) looks bad. McCain-whomever will be quite a battle.